Solar Gas Fuel System – FT8 & Solar – Turbine Technical Information https://www.dmba5411.com Training and Technical support. Sat, 31 Jan 2026 19:12:36 +0000 en-US hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 ART254 – Solar Burner Acoustic Monitor – BAM https://www.dmba5411.com/art254-solar-burner-acoustic-monitor-bam/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=art254-solar-burner-acoustic-monitor-bam Fri, 28 Feb 2025 14:35:55 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?page_id=10367

ARTICLE REFERENCE – ART254

This is a training video on the Solar Burner Acoustic Monitor.

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ART029 – Solar – Mars – Fuel gas valve check – pre PECC https://www.dmba5411.com/art029-solar-mars-fuel-gas-start-up-valve-check-part-1/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=art029-solar-mars-fuel-gas-start-up-valve-check-part-1 Tue, 18 Jun 2024 20:15:08 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=8081 Continue Reading →]]>

ARTICLE REF – ART029

This information is based on a Mars 100 unit using a servo loader valve. So its vintage is before 2001 when the PECC electronic valves were introduced. This sequence is almost standard with all the Solar product, some timer values etc may change.

At the beginning of every start the following sequence occurs:

Fuel SOV integrity check.

1… S342-1 checks for pressure between V2P931-1 and PCV932 (both valves are closed).

2… If pressure is present a greater than 45 psig (pressure switch S342-1 set point), Vent L341-3 is energized and the gas pressure between valves is allowed to vent. 

3 … A timer times 20 seconds and then checks S342-1 for pressure. If pressure has not decreased below the set point (42 psig), a leaking shutoff valve V2P931-1 is indicated. The start is aborted and a GAS FUEL VALVE FAIL malfunction is enunciated.

4 … If S342-1 was not activated, solenoid valve L341-1 is energized, shutoff valve V2P931-1 is opened, and gas is admitted into the fuel system. The primary valve open delay timer starts timing.

5 … After 2 seconds, the primary valve open delay timer times out and pressure switch S342-1 & S342-2 check for pressure. If both are not activated then a faulty shutoff valve V2P931-1 is indicated. The start is aborted and a GAS FUEL VALVE FAIL malfunction is enunciated.

If the pressure is verified above the set points of both pressure switches S342-1 and S342-2, shutoff valve V2P931-1 closes and pressure becomes trapped between shutoff valve V2P931-1 and PCV932. The secondary valve leak check timer starts timing.

6 … After 20 seconds, the secondary valve leak check timer times out and pressure switch S342-1 checks for pressure. If the pressure is below the set point, a leaking pressure control valve/shutoff valve PCV932 is indicated. The start is aborted and a GAS FUEL VALVE FAIL malfunction is enunciated.

When proper pressure is verified, (L342-1) is energized and the trapped gas pressure is allowed to bleed by flowing through pressure control valve/shutoff valve PCV932 and throttle valve AO931 and into the engine. The primary valve leak check timer starts timing.

After 25 seconds, the primary valve leak check timer times out and pressure switch S342-1 checks the pressure between shutoff valve V2P931-1 and pressure control valve/shutoff valve PCV932. If the pressure is above the set point, a faulty shutoff valve V2P931-1 is indicated. The start is aborted and a GAS FUEL VALVE FAIL malfunction is enunciated.
When the pressure is verified to be lower than pressure switch S342-1 set point, pressure control valve/shutoff valve PCV932 is closed and the start is allowed to proceed.

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ART017 – Solar – TT3 Ignition issue https://www.dmba5411.com/art017-solar-tt3-ignition-issue/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=art017-solar-tt3-ignition-issue Tue, 18 Jun 2024 19:38:05 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=8054 Continue Reading →]]>

ARTICLE REF – ART017

What you are looking at here is a fuel valve signal control . There is one signal given to the fuel valve and that is on the lower right side marked FUEL SIGNAL. You can’t have two control loops in control so to allow multiple inputs to control one output you must use some form of selection. The “Minimum Error” makes that selection. It looks at the difference between the set point of each of the five signals trying to control the valve and their set points. The control system passes the signal with the minimum error to the “P+I Controller” block which will select the appropriate proportional control value to be used in the MIN GATE. At the Minimum Gate you have two additional values (tunable) that are part of the selection for the Minimum Gate. The intent of the logic is to use the lightoff and start ramps to give you a smooth lightoff. Adjustments are needed to allow for differences in build, operating conditions etc. Once the turbine was lit-off the start ramp would normally take control of the turbine as it accelerated.

Before the introduction of electronic fuel control valves GAS DP control did not exist. All turbine manufacturers had to review the way flameout was detected. Electro-hydraulic actuators were used before the electronic actuators and they were nowhere near as quick as electronic valves. With quicker operating PLC and electronic valves the fuel valve now responded much quicker than before. You don’t appreciate this until you see how quickly an IGV electronic actuator moves the IGV ring – it is frightening how quickly it moves. What caused the concern for every turbine manufacturer was that when the turbine flamed out the fuel valve would react by opening up to allow more fuel to try to try to return to the set point before the flame out. This allows a huge amount of raw fuel into a hot combustion chamber resulting in an explosion.

One of the control changes that Solar made was “GAS DP” or “LIQUID DP” control (depending on the fuel). For fuel to arrive in the combustion chamber, atomize and mix before combustion it needs to be at a suitable pressure. Too low and it will not be able to get in or too high where it may be difficult to light off or control. The fuel is kept at a specified differential pressure higher than PCD and all works well. If the turbine flames out, the positive difference between Fuel Pressure and PCD will be lost as the fuel pressure will stay constant while the PCD will fall off quickly. In this situation GAS DP and LIQUID DP control takes over the control and prevents the fuel valve from being opened further. This DP control is not only used while at service speed, it is also present during starting.

The electronic PECC and CCC valves were introduced while Turbotronic 3 was still the control for new equipment sales. This new GAS DP and LIQUID DP control has a tendency to take over control before the turbine even lit off. If a turbine is not lighting off it would be normal practice after exhausting any other possibilities to adjust the gains on the Lightoff and Start Ramp. This will allow the fuel valve to open a little quicker giving the turbine longer time with more flow to light off within the time limit. But if GAS DP or LIQUID DP takes over control preventing any additional fuel, any changes you make to the Lightoff or Start Ramp would be futile. This tended to happen more often on CCC than on PECC fuel valves. The fix was to modify the logic to force the control to stay in Lightoff Ramp until it lit off. The logic for Turbotronic 4 does not have this issue. There are probably still units out there that are poor at starting and this may be the problem.

It is difficult to know for sure unless you record all the address to see exactly what is happening in the selector gates. A simple change to the logic is all that is required but being safety critical it needs to be done be a competent technician.

See article ART195 for video on same subject.

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ART220 – Solar PECC Gas Fuel Control Valve https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-pecc-gas-fuel-control-valve/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-pecc-gas-fuel-control-valve Sat, 02 Dec 2023 12:20:15 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=7213

ARTICLE REF ART220

Subtitles pending……..

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ART219 – Solar Mars – Fuel Valve Check https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-mars-fuel-valve-check/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-mars-fuel-valve-check Sat, 25 Nov 2023 18:30:22 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=7199

ARTICLE REF – ART219

There are subtitles available in Arabic – English – French – Hindi – Portuguese – Spanish

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ART213 – Solar – SoLoNOx https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-solonox-part-1/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-solonox-part-1 Mon, 28 Aug 2023 21:46:52 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=6774

ARTICLE REF – ART213

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ART195 – Solar – TT3 Control – Lightoff issue https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-tt3-control-lightoff-issue/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-tt3-control-lightoff-issue Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:17:19 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=6337 Continue Reading →]]>

ARTICLE REF – ART195

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ART189 – Solar – Mars Gas Fuel SoLoNOx https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-mars-gas-fuel-solonox/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-mars-gas-fuel-solonox Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:46:39 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=6182 Continue Reading →]]>

Article Ref – ART189

Solar Gas Fuel SoLoNOx

SoLoNOx is the technology Solar Turbines uses to control nitrogen oxides and CO. It is derived from the words Solar Low NOx.

CO is formed when combustion temperatures are less than 2700° F.

NOx is formed when the combustion temperature is greater than 2900° F.

So keeping the temperature in the zone between the two is what will keep the CO and NOx at acceptable levels.

Getting the temperature to the range 2700 to 2900° F, requires hardware and software changes. There has been much changes over the last thirty years, and therefore there are many different designs still in service.

The current design for the Mars is to use two PECC fuel valves, with parallel flow. The earlier designs had all the fuel flowing through the Main PECC and then the Pilot PECC used part of that fuel. That design made it more difficult to calculate flow in each line. The PECC valve is ideal for this application as it can calculate the fuel flow independent of any outside instruments.

In the early days, gas fuel SoLoNOx used three fixed orifices, which supplied additional fuel when required to help stabilize the combustion process. Two of these could be controlled by solenoids.

Solar normally guarantees the emissions above 50% load. The guarantee is limited on T1 > 0 C. At 50% load the combustor temperature will not have reached the desired SoLoNOx operating band. But what Solar do is to open up the bleed valve a little, which makes the fuel mixture richer causing the combustor temperature to rise. The Mars enters SoLoNOx control at approximately 93% NGP, and this is when the bleed is commanded open to control SoLoNOx T5 Set Point. During this part load control the bleed will open and close to maintain the SoLoNOx T5 set point. This set point value is found on the turbine data plate. The SoLoNOx T5 set point has a T1 bias that modifies it at the lower temperatures.

The Pilot flow is used to stabilize the flame when operating at lean mixes of air and fuel. The pilot will flow approximately 30% of the total fuel during part load and up to 6% of the total fuel at full load. In the test cell the stability of the flame is tested at different pilot values to determine the minimum amount of additional fuel required. A curve of pilot valve control based on fuel flow is produced in the test cell. These values are found on the data plate also.

Flame instability is important as the pressure pulses can damage the turbine and also make it susceptible to flameout. Mars now comes with Burner Acoustic Monitoring “BAM” so this information is available all the time. There are two frequency bands of particular importance,  30 Hz and 360 Hz. The lower frequency pulses create a rumble and is most detrimental to the turbine. In the past BAM used to be a field tool that was used when trouble shooting or commissioning the turbine.

End of article.

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ART185 – Solar – Mars loader valve video https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-mars-loader-valve-video/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-mars-loader-valve-video Sun, 04 Dec 2022 17:20:32 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=6096 Continue Reading →]]>

ARTICLE REF – ART185

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ART183 – Solar – Mars Gas Valve Check – PECC https://www.dmba5411.com/solar-mars-gas-valve-check-pecc/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=solar-mars-gas-valve-check-pecc Fri, 25 Nov 2022 14:03:49 +0000 https://www.dmba5411.com/?p=6074 Continue Reading →]]>

ARTICLE REF – ART183

Whenever a Solar unit with PECC valves is going to start on gas fuel or if it is going to transfer from liquid fuel to gas fuel, it carries out a fuel valve check. This ensures that certain valves are functioning correctly and that they are not leaking excessively.

The first part of the Valve Check Sequence is to see if there is gas pressure to carry out the check. The logic checks the difference between Fuel Pressure and PCD (Compressor Discharge Pressure). If the pressure of the fuel gas supply is greater than 12 psi the check is permitted to continue. If the turbine is in service the fuel gas needs to be at least 12 psi greater than PCD pressure, otherwise the fuel gas will not be able to enter the combustor! If not in service PCD will be zero and as long as the fuel supply pressure is greater than 12 psi the check continues.

 

 

The next part of the Valve Check Sequence is to check the pressure between the Primary and Secondary Shut Off Valves. PT2121 checks for pressure, and if the pressure is 10 psi higher than PCD, there is a potential problem. If the Primary SOV is leaking it will have gas pressure, 10 psi higher than PCD. When the turbine is shutting down, and the speed reaches 15% NGP, the Vent solenoid SV2121 is energized open for one minute. When you go to start the turbine, the pressure at PT2121 should be zero – as long as all the valve seals are in good condition. If the differential pressure above is less than l0 psi, the logic moves to the next sequence. If the pressure is greater than 10 psi, the Vent Solenoid SV2121 is energized open to vent the gas for one minute. The same logic is applied after the timer times out. If it still fails the turbine start or fuel transfer is aborted. If it passes the sequence continues.

 

 

The next Valve Check Sequence is to verify the correct operation of the electronic actuators. The two PECC valves are stroked to 80% and closed again. The command versus feedback is checked by the normal logic that looks for a discrepancy of more than 10% error between the command and position feedback. If any of the two valves fail this check the check is abandoned.

 

 

The next part of the Valve Check Sequence is to verify the Primary SOV is not leaking excessively. Twenty seconds after the PECC valve function check, the pressure difference between the Gas Fuel Supply Pressure and Pressure Between SOVs is checked.

If (Fuel Pressure PT2120 – Press between valves PT2121) < 12 psi a Valve Check Fail is annunciated and the sequence is abandoned. This means the Primary Valve has a significant leak.

If the pressure difference is greater than 12 psi the pressure of PT2121 is recorded, then wait X seconds (see diagram). Then the DP is checked again – if the DP has increased by 10 psi, in 10 seconds, Valve Check Fail is annunciated and the sequence is abandoned. Otherwise the sequence continues.

 

 

Next in the sequence is to verify that the Primary SOV opens. If it can’t open there isn’t any reason to continue with gas start or fuel transfer to gas. The Primary Valve is opened for two seconds and closed again. Now wait 20 seconds and check to see if the pressure between SOVs is 12 psi higher than PCD (Compressor Discharge Pressure) pressure. If it is we continue to the next check in the sequence. If it isn’t Valve Check Fail is annunciated and the sequence is abandoned.

 

 

Next in sequence is to check for a leaking Secondary SOV. First record the pressure of PT2121. Then wait X seconds – see diagram. Then the pressure of PT2121 is checked again. If the pressure increased by 10 psi, in X seconds, Valve Check Fail is annunciated and the sequence is abandoned. Otherwise the sequence continues.

 

 

This sequence checks for correct operation of SOVs opening to supply pressure to the PECC Valves. Command open Primary and Secondary SOVs. Wait two seconds and close again. Wait 20 seconds. If the pressure of PT2126 is 12 psi higher than PCD pressure continue with sequence. Otherwise Valve Check Fail is annunciated and the sequence is abandoned.

 

 

The last part of the Valve Check Sequence is to verify leaks at the PECC valves. First record the pressure of PT2126. Wait X seconds (see diagram below). If the pressure of PT2126 decreased by 10 psi, Valve Check Fail is annunciated and the sequence failed. If the pressure does not decrease by 10 psi or more the Valve Check has completed and the start on gas or transfer to gas may continue.

End of article.

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